Ignacio Rosaslanda, Junge Welt Journalist: Thank you for talking with us today. Can you please introduce yourself very briefly?
Dr. Shir Hever: Gladly. My name is Shir Hever. I am a researcher
of the arms industry, the Israeli arms industry. I am a supporter of the BDS
movement. I am originally from Jerusalem and now I live in Germany.
Ignacio Rosaslanda: Today we are here in Leipzig. Can you explain a little
why it is important to be here today?
Dr. Shir Hever: There is a suspicion here that weapons are also
being delivered to Israel from the airport here in Leipzig. That is still under
investigation, but the protest is everywhere against all weapon deliveries, not
just here in Leipzig. There are protests all over Germany. It is very
impressive that so many people in Leipzig are active and engaged against arms
deals with Israel. And we see here, I believe, more than 1000 people.
Now, as Israel is carrying
out a genocide in Gaza, approximately one third of the weapons come from
Germany, and that is a violation of international law.
Ignacio What kind of weapons are these that Germany is sending
to Israel?
Dr. Shir Hever: There are very large quantities of weapons that
Germany sends, from submarines to drones, from anti-tank missiles to warships
that bomb with gas. Many of these weapons are used in Gaza. Most of these
weapons are used in Gaza. And according to international agreements, it is
forbidden to conduct this trade with Israel. Not only to sell weapons to
Israel, but also to buy weapons from Israel or to transport weapons to Israel.
Germany does that too. Germany also buys weapons from Israel. Germany buys and
transports weapons from the USA through the Ramstein airbase, for example, or
on German ships.
Ignacio Rosaslanda: We were in Ulm a few weeks ago, in the town where the
Elbit factory is. We also have Rheinmetall here. How big is the industry
involvement here in Germany?
Dr. Shir Hever: Germany overall is the fourth or fifth largest arms exporter in the world, so much larger even than Israel. Elbit Systems and also the other two large Israeli arms companies, IAI and Rafael, have subsidiaries in Germany. And this is very important for the Israeli military. They sell weapons to the Bundeswehr (German armed forces), but they also produce parts for weapons that they send to Israel. And that is, of course, forbidden. Germany must prohibit that. The statement by (German chancellor) Merz should also apply to the Israeli subsidiaries in Germany, meaning in Ulm and elsewhere. But I believe that the interests of the German arms industry are so strong that it is not so easy to stop them. But on the other hand, the people who want to profit greatly from this in large German companies like Rheinmetall, MTU, or RENK also don't want to end up in prison, and if they do something completely illegal, that will be the result.
Ignacio Rosaslanda: We see images every day of rockets destroying Gaza.
How can we know if those bombs or those missiles or those rockets are of German
origin?
Dr. Shir Hever: Well, that is very difficult to know because
what Israel does after every bombardment is fire 155mm shells to destroy the
traces, so that we cannot find the scraps of the devices. But sometimes we
still find them. On July 1, 2024, a Palestinian journalist photographed a piece
of a rocket. There was a small piece that said "Made in Germany". It
was from a company in Fulda. The company is called Jumo. They produce air
conditioners. But this pressure regulator from the air conditioner was used by
Israel for a rocket that was used in the West Bank, not in Gaza, against the
refugee camps in Jenin, and that is of course forbidden. This means these
pressure regulators must be classified as dual-use products, and this company
Jumo, if it continues to sell these products, it is illegal, they must then be
punished.
Ignacio Rosaslanda: From when can one say that they are doing this? Is it
punishable for these people, for the companies, but also for the politicians?
What do we need?
Dr. Shir Hever: Yes. Well, Israel has always claimed the occupation is short-term, and then according to the Fourth Geneva Convention, military occupation is allowed for short periods. Of course, that doesn't work with the illegal settlements, but the weapon deliveries were a separate matter. But now, on December 29, 2023, South Africa sued Israel with the accusation of genocide, and on January 24, 2024, the ICJ (International Court of Justice) gave an order: Israel must stop the acts under the Genocide Convention. And immediately, in the second that Israel broke this order, meaning did not follow it, already on January 24, 2024, that creates an obligation for third countries like Germany to stop the weapons immediately. Since that moment, Germany is breaking international law.
Furthermore, there are additional steps. For example, on July 19, 2024, the ICJ wrote an advisory opinion that the occupation as such is illegal. Israel can no longer say it is only short-term. It is not short-term, it must be ended immediately, and third countries are compelled to impose sanctions against Israel and to stop weapon deliveries. And Germany has unfortunately ignored this ruling as well.
Ignacio Rosaslanda: What does Germany buy from Israel then?
Dr. Shir Hever: Many things. But the biggest deal is the Arrow-3
system. That is a defense missile that Israel produces for Germany, for Germany
against potential missile attacks. It is an untested system. It is not known if
it works or not, but Germany was already prepared to pay 4 billion euros for
this system. That is very, very much. It is the largest arms export in Israel's
history. And it was signed 10 days in October, after the famous speech by the
then Israeli Defense Minister, Yoav Gallant, who said that Palestinians were
"human animals" and would get "no water, no food, no
medicine." So that was his declaration of genocide. 10 days later, Germany
invited him, Boris Pistorius, the Defense Minister, to sign a deal for this
Arrow-3. There are many other weapons that Israel sells to Germany. But that
would be a long list, unfortunately.
Ignacio Rosaslanda: Okay. And why do you think it is important that we are
here today at the airport?
Dr. Shir Hever: I believe that the declaration from Merz would
not have been possible if he (the government) had not understood that public
opinion in Germany is changing, that the majority in Germany is against the
weapon deliveries and against the genocide. And so every pressure that we exert
has a result. His declaration was only a first step, it is of course not
enough. But if we continue to protest, continue to march and demonstrate, then
further steps will come. We already see this in other countries. So Germany is
very far behind the rest of the world here, but it is getting closer and
closer. I read yesterday that the Foreign Minister of the Netherlands, Kaspar
Veldkamp, resigned from the government because he wanted sharp sanctions
against Israel, which his government did not accept. They wanted fewer
sanctions. That means it is coming to Germany's border, to the Netherlands.
Germany is next.
Ignacio Rosaslanda: Thank you very much.
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